Zedan vs CDI Lawsuit

[Izvestia]

Lots of people on this forum complain about Bob Baffert, but it seems to me that many of the rich movers and shakers in the racing industry like and use him. They pay the bills not you folks so obviously he’ s doing something right.

Look at all the high dollar yearlings and 2 year olds headed his way. CDI is not doing itself any favors by pissing off the people who pay the bills and provide the entertainment without which they would not exist as a company.

Lots of other trainers do stupid stuff but are not banned for multiple years. They are doing this because he spoke his mind and it’s not pc enough for them so they try to make an example of him.

As for transferring to another trainer, how idiotic, choosing a trainer is a highly personal choice and it’s not like trainer b gives the results of trainer a. I’m spending millions in this industry to buy horses and I want Bob Baffert, I’m not changing to Joey Bag O’Donuts for the biggest 3 year old race in the country. Asking that is beyond ridiculous and insulting.

They made their point banning him the first time, the rest is just more of the cancel culture BS cause Mr. Baffert speaks his peace, not a crime in this country.

While you guys obviously don’t care for him, a lot of people with a lot of money and talented horses do, and they are the ones that matter, not keyboard warriors who want to shut down anyone who doesn’t join the hive mindset.

And yeah, I like Bob Baffert, he’s a heck of a good trainer and he has helped shape a hell of a lot of champions, how many of you have the resume he does?

You act like he’s the only option out there for the people “paying the bills”… and I wholeheartedly disagree with you on so many levels. The people “paying the bills” are ALL owners. Baffert trains for some wealthy people, that do not keep this industry going. They are a part of the industry just as mom and pop owner/breeders are. The people he trains for have money and power, but they are not above everyone else. The rules apply to them too. You sound incredibly elitist. Those FEW horses selling for millions are not the norm - there are far more horses running that have sold for $50,000 or less or never sold.

[Starine]

Joey Bag O' Donuts would be a great racehorse name.

[Tessablue]

While you guys obviously don’t care for him, a lot of people with a lot of money and talented horses do, and they are the ones that matter, not keyboard warriors who want to shut down anyone who doesn’t join the hive mindset.

Hold on, I remember you posting something about how you admired that twitter billionaire for saying a bunch of uninformed crap about Japanese racing because he was "speaking his mind." Let me check something...

Honestly, everyone can have an opinion. There is nothing wrong with that.

You don't have to agree with it, but he is entitled to think what he likes.

...

While he might not be very PC, he at least speaks his mind. For that I can respect him.

What a fascinating contrast! In an effort to cross the line from "keyboard warrior" to "speaking my mind," I'll try and find a way to throw in some factually incorrect criticism of international racing jurisdictions the next time I discuss a trainer who destroyed his own reputation because of his complete inability to take responsibility for anything.

[MySaladDays]

a lot of people with a lot of money and talented horses do, and they are the ones that matter

Rich people send horses all over the world, to many talented and HONEST trainers.

There is a huge choice of trainers to choose from, w/out supporting a trainer who is part of everything that is wrong with the current U.S. system: overpay for yearlings or two year olds in training, get your money out and retire them at 3 (if they make it that long). Ex Quarter horse trainers, Lukas started it and Baffert continued it..... to the demise of way too many young horses.

In any other jurisdictions the world over, he would have lost his training license long ago.

While you guys obviously don’t care for him

Many of us care about .... HORSES. Try to remember that. . They are not throwaways for the wealthy. And thankfully, not everyone with money treats them that way.

[barbaro111]

Lots of people on this forum complain about Bob Baffert, but it seems to me that many of the rich movers and shakers in the racing industry like and use him. They pay the bills not you folks so obviously he’ s doing something right.

Look at all the high dollar yearlings and 2 year olds headed his way. CDI is not doing itself any favors by pissing off the people who pay the bills and provide the entertainment without which they would not exist as a company.

Lots of other trainers do stupid stuff but are not banned for multiple years. They are doing this because he spoke his mind and it’s not pc enough for them so they try to make an example of him.

As for transferring to another trainer, how idiotic, choosing a trainer is a highly personal choice and it’s not like trainer b gives the results of trainer a. I’m spending millions in this industry to buy horses and I want Bob Baffert, I’m not changing to Joey Bag O’Donuts for the biggest 3 year old race in the country. Asking that is beyond ridiculous and insulting.

They made their point banning him the first time, the rest is just more of the cancel culture BS cause Mr. Baffert speaks his peace, not a crime in this country.

While you guys obviously don’t care for him, a lot of people with a lot of money and talented horses do, and they are the ones that matter, not keyboard warriors who want to shut down anyone who doesn’t join the hive mindset.

And yeah, I like Bob Baffert, he’s a heck of a good trainer and he has helped shape a hell of a lot of champions, how many of you have the resume he does?

You act like he’s the only option out there for the people “paying the bills”… and I wholeheartedly disagree with you on so many levels. The people “paying the bills” are ALL owners. Baffert trains for some wealthy people, that do not keep this industry going. They are a part of the industry just as mom and pop owner/breeders are. The people he trains for have money and power, but they are not above everyone else. The rules apply to them too. You sound incredibly elitist. Those FEW horses selling for millions are not the norm - there are far more horses running that have sold for $50,000 or less or never sold.

I like Bob Baffert- he is a great trainer-- and yes he has made some mistakes-- he is not a doper as some have called him on some forums.
CDI is being petty, nasty and vindictive- they said 2 years ban- now its 3-- it is disgusting.

[MySaladDays]

-- he is not a doper as some have called him

"People" don't call it......

....the list of Rulings does. Maybe you should look up his suspensions in Rulings sometime.

Maybe Baffert's owners can take The jockey club and TOBA to court and have all the "many" rulings erased. If they are made up, seems like they would have a good case. There are a lot of them, and going back many years.

[Private Thoughts]

If you look at my posts I hate how this forum dumps on those in the industry that don't hold to the pc line of thinking. As I said, the hive mindset gets offended by a difference of opinion. Oh well, you know what they say about opinions. Everyone has one.

Last I looked, this country still has freedom of speech, unlike many other countries in the world at this point in time. You, too, are entitled to your opinions. But so are others. That's how you have a debate. I'm not calling anyone a bad name, I'm politely disagreeing.

Funny, but I can list some other trainers who have been in trouble for one thing or another over the course of their careers., Doug O'Neil, Wayne Lukas, Todd Pletcher, Steve Asmussen, over the years, but they have never been black listed like Bob Baffert.

While horses of every level compete, look at the stands of a track on a day without the superstars, pretty thin, but come big race days with big names and "usually, but not always" high dollar horses, and rich owners, the stands are packed and the infield full. That makes money, not empty stands.

So I stand by my comments both on Mr. Baffert and Mr. Stewart. They are free to have an opinion, even if some folks are offended. I happen to like both of them.

[MySaladDays]

I hate how this forum dumps on those in the industry that don't hold to the pc line of thinking.

Most horse racing forums (including the ones over the pond and in Asia/Australia) don't seem to be overly fond of suspensions involving drugging horses with un-permissables. Maybe you can find "your people" elsewhere.

Good for you for taking the kickback though. Can't fault you for speaking your mind.

[Flanders]

He has never been caught giving his horses anything impermissible. Yeah he has gotten positives for overages of allowed medications. Even the Justify positive was proven to be environmental contamination and Ruis wasn't fighting that. He was fighting the fact that Justify still should have been disqualified. At some point the CHRB decided to stop DQing horses that ingested jimson weed because it was happening so often during certain times of the year. No one is giving their horses scopolamine and atropine unless they are trying to kill the horse.

You think Pletcher is a doper? He has had what 7-8 positives since Baffert got suspended from the Derby, including multiple that were "contamination".

To me dopers are people like Servis and Navarro.

[Izvestia]

Funny, but I can list some other trainers who have been in trouble for one thing or another over the course of their careers., Doug O'Neil, Wayne Lukas, Todd Pletcher, Steve Asmussen, over the years, but they have never been black listed like Bob Baffert.

I don’t like any of those trainers.
I am not part of a hive mind. My opinion is mine and mine alone.

[Tessablue]

How often were Servis and Navarro caught giving their horses something impermissible before the FBI intervened? It's not like there's even a test for EPO. The system is not equipped to catch dopers and never has been, and those two were only eventually caught because they were idiots about it.

But honestly, who even cares about illicit race results when Havnameltdown's necropsy and the thyroxine report are out there for everyone to read. Hell, just the few excerpts I can find from Tweebster's necropsy are horribly disturbing. The industry itself is very much at fault for ever letting someone like Baffert become "the face of the sport," but divorcing itself from him is better done late than never. Other trainers have their issues, those issues may even be worse than his and they should certainly face consequences whenever warranted, but none of those trainers had their Derby winner test positive before dropping dead later in the year, so none of those trainers are banned from the Derby. End of story.

That twitter guy is evidently on CDI's side in all of this (https://twitter.com/jstewartrr/status/1 ... 1708685479); unclear if this demotes him to keyboard warrior, but I truly cannot wait to find out.

[Palace Malice]

Funny, but I can list some other trainers who have been in trouble for one thing or another over the course of their careers., Doug O'Neil, Wayne Lukas, Todd Pletcher, Steve Asmussen, over the years, but they have never been black listed like Bob Baffert.

I don’t like any of those trainers.
I am not part of a hive mind. My opinion is mine and mine alone.

Same. I think most of the "popular" trainers are problematic.

I like trainers like Christophe Clement and Graham Motion. I can't find anything bad to say about them and they definitely are good trainers that can get you a runner.

[Palace Malice]

That twitter guy is evidently on CDI's side in all of this (https://twitter.com/jstewartrr/status/1 ... 1708685479); unclear if this demotes him to keyboard warrior, but I truly cannot wait to find out.

I hated his post about Japan but this time he is right.

[Mylute]

Yeah the people that criticize/dislike Bafferto for legitimate reasons are part of a cult hive mind, but the people that viscously, desperately crawl through broken glass to excuse every one of the many "mistakes" he has made are totally not part of a hive mind.

Riiiiiight.....

Baffert had dope positives for the Kentucky Oaks and Kentucky Derby. Nobody else. That is a fact. Live with that.

I like Bob Baffert- he is a great trainer-- and yes he has made some mistakes-- he is not a doper as some have called him on some forums.
CDI is being petty, nasty and vindictive- they said 2 years ban- now its 3-- it is disgusting.

Sure, buddy. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Keep burying your head in the sand, never take those nostalgia goggles off!

[Curtis]

Yeah the people that criticize/dislike Bafferto for legitimate reasons are part of a cult hive mind, but the people that viscously, desperately crawl through broken glass to excuse every one of the many "mistakes" he has made are totally not part of a hive mind.

Riiiiiight.....

Baffert had dope positives for the Kentucky Oaks and Kentucky Derby. Nobody else. That is a fact. Live with that.

I like Bob Baffert- he is a great trainer-- and yes he has made some mistakes-- he is not a doper as some have called him on some forums.
CDI is being petty, nasty and vindictive- they said 2 years ban- now its 3-- it is disgusting.

Sure, buddy. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Keep burying your head in the sand, never take those nostalgia goggles off!

Maybe you and Barbaro111 should discuss this where you, oh I don’t know, actually respond. But if the International Society of Trolls doesn’t sanction such behavior, excuse me in advance.

[Diver52]

I've been in Africa for 2 weeks and couldn't sign in on my device, but I'm astonished at some comments. Not the Baffert hatred; I can see that. But the siding with CDI's arbitrary action just because you hate the object. Yes, we all know that CDI is a private entity and can do what it likes. But recall that the U.S. Constitution protects not only free speech, but the right to petition the government for the redress of grievances. That includes filing a lawsuit, because you are asking the government to help you. Thus, we also all agree that no governmental agency could sanction Baffert or Zedan for pursuing legal action. But CDI can. Does that make it fair or right? Suppose you sued your popular neighbor, and suddenly your country club membership was revoked, you were barred from PTA meetings, and your doctor dumps you. Would you just say "Oh well, they have the right?" Or would you feel outraged?

And as for the person who wanted Zedan barred because "he's annoying." If that was a serious comment, I don't know what to say.

I once worked on a legal case involving the decision by a local tribe to kick out about 10% of its membership because they allegedly failed to prove that their ancestor, "Pechanga Mary," was in fact a Pechanga person. In the opinion I reluctantly concluded not only that the tribe had the sole power to determine it's membership (no real issue there) but also that it's decisions could not be challenged. It didn't matter what the petitioners' evidence showed, or whether the tribal governance simply wanted to reduce the number of people getting casino cash--due process did not apply and the claimants were SOOL. That case still bothers me. '

[stark]

I've been in Africa for 2 weeks and couldn't sign in on my device, but I'm astonished at some comments. Not the Baffert hatred; I can see that. But the siding with CDI's arbitrary action just because you hate the object. Yes, we all know that CDI is a private entity and can do what it likes. But recall that the U.S. Constitution protects not only free speech, but the right to petition the government for the redress of grievances. That includes filing a lawsuit, because you are asking the government to help you. Thus, we also all agree that no governmental agency could sanction Baffert or Zedan for pursuing legal action. But CDI can. Does that make it fair or right? Suppose you sued your popular neighbor, and suddenly your country club membership was revoked, you were barred from PTA meetings, and your doctor dumps you. Would you just say "Oh well, they have the right?" Or would you feel outraged?

And as for the person who wanted Zedan barred because "he's annoying." If that was a serious comment, I don't know what to say.

I once worked on a legal case involving the decision by a local tribe to kick out about 10% of its membership because they allegedly failed to prove that their ancestor, "Pechanga Mary," was in fact a Pechanga person. In the opinion I reluctantly concluded not only that the tribe had the sole power to determine it's membership (no real issue there) but also that it's decisions could not be challenged. It didn't matter what the petitioners' evidence showed, or whether the tribal governance simply wanted to reduce the number of people getting casino cash--due process did not apply and the claimants were SOOL. That case still bothers me. '

B-I-N-G-O

[Izvestia]

Ok. What I truly do not understand is the complete inability of those defending Baffert to admit he is a problem in the sport. Is he actually as good a guy as you say?

He has had multiple positives at the highest level of the sport, with some of the weakest reasons - I mean, is his stable really that full of contamination or incompetence, time after time??? He has had many horribly tragic (and suspicious) deaths of horses, and it always seems to be swept under the rug.

He trains for big money, big ego, big business owners. The horses are a novelty. He just churns out horses like a factory. People like a winner, I get it. It feels good to win.

I am also Canadian, so none of your laws are familiar.

[CoronadosQuest]

I've been in Africa for 2 weeks and couldn't sign in on my device, but I'm astonished at some comments. Not the Baffert hatred; I can see that. But the siding with CDI's arbitrary action just because you hate the object. Yes, we all know that CDI is a private entity and can do what it likes. But recall that the U.S. Constitution protects not only free speech, but the right to petition the government for the redress of grievances. That includes filing a lawsuit, because you are asking the government to help you. Thus, we also all agree that no governmental agency could sanction Baffert or Zedan for pursuing legal action. But CDI can. Does that make it fair or right? Suppose you sued your popular neighbor, and suddenly your country club membership was revoked, you were barred from PTA meetings, and your doctor dumps you. Would you just say "Oh well, they have the right?" Or would you feel outraged?

And as for the person who wanted Zedan barred because "he's annoying." If that was a serious comment, I don't know what to say.

I once worked on a legal case involving the decision by a local tribe to kick out about 10% of its membership because they allegedly failed to prove that their ancestor, "Pechanga Mary," was in fact a Pechanga person. In the opinion I reluctantly concluded not only that the tribe had the sole power to determine it's membership (no real issue there) but also that it's decisions could not be challenged. It didn't matter what the petitioners' evidence showed, or whether the tribal governance simply wanted to reduce the number of people getting casino cash--due process did not apply and the claimants were SOOL. That case still bothers me. '

If that was referring to me, I don't think either of them should be banned for life. I am really tired of this whole drama and honestly wish they would have just stopped at the two-year ban and left it at that. I am sick of hearing about it, so I said my comment about the banned because he is annoying because I am tired of hearing about this subject over and over and over again.

[Tessablue]

I mean I guess we could turn this into a rage against the foundation of the US justice system, but this particular case seems an odd avenue for it. Baffert's situation is more like if I took my pants off every time I went to the local grocery store, and then the grocery store banned me for a couple of years, and then I sued them for it and repeatedly showed up to court wearing no pants. The local grocery store would have every right to say "yeah, clearly this behavior will not change," and extend the ban. Meanwhile, the court would likely remind me that the right to enter local grocery stores is not enshrined in the Constitution, and non-pants-wearers are not considered a protective class, and therefore I'm pretty much out of luck if I refuse to change my behavior.

Baffert metaphorically put his pants back on earlier this year, and was probably in line to have the ban lifted next year... until Zedan pulled this utter nonsense. Whether the, uh, foundation of the US justice system is fair or not has no bearing on the fact that Zedan's attempt is a ridiculously transparent attempt to circumvent the rules that he previously agreed to. He's making a blatant effort to throw the race into chaos just a few weeks beforehand, and it impacts others in the field who would be excluded if he got his way. Consequences would certainly be warranted in this situation.

(also, let's be real, he is really annoying. Remember all that nonsense about Taiba's quest for glory? gross.)