Zedan vs CDI Lawsuit

[MissNMecke]

While I really do not like Baffert, it would be unfair if they added time to his ban for Zedan's actions. They also need to quit just tacking on time to his ban. They should have stuck with the original (until the next positive) or just handed a lifetime ban from the get-go. I have been fan of many Baffert runners over the years, despite their trainer. Yes, he's had quite a few tragic breakdowns, but that unfortunately happens in horse racing. The horses suddenly dropping dead during workouts is a different story. And....well.....lots of his former runners don't seem to live very long after retirement either.

[brunanas]

Court of Appeals Denies Zedan Emergency Motion
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... ncy-motion

The state's rules of civil procedure provide a motion for reconsideration of today's order is not allowed.

[Diver52]

Being upset over a tragedy shows he’s human. It was sad when What A Song broke down.

About the secret sauce, I hope that’s not the case, because it would be bad for the sport and horrible for any horse that crossed his path.
[/quote]

Me too, but a lot of people seem to assume it--if he's caught with an overage, he's cheating; if his horses come back clean, it's because he's using something they can't detect. It's just impossible to argue with that logic.

[stark]

Does he use the secret sauce?

My two cents.....

It's right there for everybody to see everyday.......it's all about the workouts.

Nobody, and I really mean nobody, trains their horses as hard as Baffert does, for better or worse.

Nobody tells the clockers we're working four furlongs today, publish that time, and then he tells the jock to go strong for 6-7 furlongs on the "gallop-out"

Some really great trainers send out their horses for routine 4F trips, not at all concerned about the times, and the jock pulls up at the wire, just so that they keep the horse in shape between races.

Baffert sends 'em out for the bullets, sometimes even from the gate which is even more impressive, and I think it all shows up in the final results. Some horses succeed, others don't, but it's the actual training that makes the difference IMHO.

[Tessablue]

I think that when you really get down to it, the question at the very heart of this conflict is pretty simple: do you believe that Bob Baffert, and everything he represents, is compatible with the future and survival of horse racing?

I do not, and it appears that an increasing number of industry members feel the same way. In order to secure its long-term survival, horse racing needs to address its many issues head-on, take on the responsibility of initiating systemic changes, and convince the public that it is genuinely committed to doing so in the interest of equine safety. Baffert was once a useful promoter for the sport- fast horses and funny quips- but the industry's priorities and the overall public landscape have changed considerably in the past 25 years, whereas Baffert has not.

Simply put, we have reached a point where the Face of the Sport cannot be someone with a long and checkered history of deaths and drug positives. It cannot be someone who saw multiple horses drop dead with thyroxine (a blood thickener) and rodenticide (a blood thinner) in their system. It cannot be someone who tells a story in his biography about giving a horse an unknown substance and then lying to the stewards about it. It cannot be someone who has tried to coerce grooms into taking the fall for drug positives. It cannot be someone who features heavily in a documentary called Broken Horses, after his 3yo with bone cysts in all four legs and a heavy nematode load died on national television on Preakness day. And it cannot be someone who is so deeply allergic to responsibility that his first action after receiving news of a drug positive was to go on television and complain about cancel culture.

I spent years on this forum arguing that the sport's love affair with Baffert would blow up in its face one day. It made a lot of people very upset, and it was quite an unpleasant and lonely stance to take. But here's the thing: it was objectively correct. The bomb blew up in the spring of 2021, and essentially every entity in the sport has had to come to terms with it in the time since. Some people--seemingly the high-powered, high-income owners who care about winning more than literally anything else--have doubled down in their support of him. Others seem to have read the room and decided that business in the long run will be greatly harmed by continuing to promote and associate with someone who essentially personifies everything that the public fears about the sport. There might have been some point in the past when the industry could have chosen to divorce itself from Baffert without this much fallout, but that opportunity was lost many years ago.

Is CDI a blight on the racing industry? Yes, of course. They have far too much power and their day of reckoning is surely ahead of them. But it is worth noting that they are not wielding the power to ban people from their premises indiscriminately, they are not doing anything illegal, and indeed they have banned only one person from the Kentucky Derby: the one person who had a positive test in the Oaks, followed by a positive test for that same substance in the Derby, and whose inability to take responsibility led to an SNL parody and years of acrimonious litigation. CDI has too much power, yes. That's another problem for another day. But who else would even be capable of taking a stand against a litigious legend of the sport who has spent decades cozily avoiding consequence?

And after all, under the right circumstances, a poison can become a cure.

[Izvestia]

Does he use the secret sauce?

My two cents.....

It's right there for everybody to see everyday.......it's all about the workouts.

Nobody, and I really mean nobody, trains their horses as hard as Baffert does, for better or worse.

Nobody tells the clockers we're working four furlongs today, publish that time, and then he tells the jock to go strong for 6-7 furlongs on the "gallop-out"

Some really great trainers send out their horses for routine 4F trips, not at all concerned about the times, and the jock pulls up at the wire, just so that they keep the horse in shape between races.

Baffert sends 'em out for the bullets, sometimes even from the gate which is even more impressive, and I think it all shows up in the final results. Some horses succeed, others don't, but it's the actual training that makes the difference IMHO.

Perhaps you are onto something. But training like that results in sore horses who breakdown, retire early, disappear, or need “help” whether it’s a permitted substance or not. Gamine is a great example. Hell, Justify is too. I can see the attraction to him for owners wanting results as ego fulfillment.

He might be the most successful trainer of all time, but he’s not on my list of top horsemen.

[Flanders]

Does he use the secret sauce?

My two cents.....

It's right there for everybody to see everyday.......it's all about the workouts.

Nobody, and I really mean nobody, trains their horses as hard as Baffert does, for better or worse.

Nobody tells the clockers we're working four furlongs today, publish that time, and then he tells the jock to go strong for 6-7 furlongs on the "gallop-out"

Some really great trainers send out their horses for routine 4F trips, not at all concerned about the times, and the jock pulls up at the wire, just so that they keep the horse in shape between races.

Baffert sends 'em out for the bullets, sometimes even from the gate which is even more impressive, and I think it all shows up in the final results. Some horses succeed, others don't, but it's the actual training that makes the difference IMHO.

Perhaps you are onto something. But training like that results in sore horses who breakdown, retire early, disappear, or need “help” whether it’s a permitted substance or not. Gamine is a great example. Hell, Justify is too. I can see the attraction to him for owners wanting results as ego fulfillment.

He might be the most successful trainer of all time, but he’s not on my list of top horsemen.

The problem is that owners don't care. They want in and out, they want to retire them to stud deals ASAP. Its not just Baffert either, look at the list of horses over the past 20 years who have retired as 3yos or sooner. The vast majority have minor injuries, things they could return to the races from but the owners want the payout. All that matters to owners who are going for fast 2 and 3yos is results for stud deals. And all trainers are going to give a horse something sometimes, if a horse is sore they need some relief. Now you'd hope they wouldn't race a sore horse that fast but definitely happens. Yes some do it more often that others. Others give joint injections every race. Its not just a Baffert problem, its an almost everyone problem. I thought I came up with one who wouldn't have positives but even Motion had 2 that I could find fast. This is all I've ever tried to get across. People think I try to defend Baffert but it isn't that, its that I want everyone to realize that almost every trainer is a POS and the same.

[Tessablue]

The problem is that owners don't care. They want in and out, they want to retire them to stud deals ASAP. Its not just Baffert either, look at the list of horses over the past 20 years who have retired as 3yos or sooner. The vast majority have minor injuries, things they could return to the races from but the owners want the payout. All that matters to owners who are going for fast 2 and 3yos is results for stud deals. And all trainers are going to give a horse something sometimes, if a horse is sore they need some relief. Now you'd hope they wouldn't race a sore horse that fast but definitely happens. Yes some do it more often that others. Others give joint injections every race. Its not just a Baffert problem, its an almost everyone problem. I thought I came up with one who wouldn't have positives but even Motion had 2 that I could find fast. This is all I've ever tried to get across. People think I try to defend Baffert but it isn't that, its that I want everyone to realize that almost every trainer is a POS and the same.

But the problem is, other trainer's aren't the same. In terms of misconduct, sure, maybe. The seven dead thyroxine horses were very unusual, and his death rate is a lot higher than it should be for a top-level trainer, but I read all of the CHRB necropsy reports so I'm well-aware that there are some horrible people out there (hello, Peter Miller). But in terms of everything else? Other trainers don't own an entire racing jurisdiction, aren't known to the public, don't get op-eds in the LA Times about how racing "needs" them. Going after just one trainer and pretending like that will fix everything is pointless, yes, but there has been a lot of movement in the past few years towards enacting consequences for everyone (goodbye, Diodoro!). And if you show all those many other POS trainers that you're willing to go after someone who was previously deemed Too Big to Fail, doesn't that send a message that nobody else is immune to consequence?

I guess I just don't understand why there's so much "why Baffert?" regarding his banning from the Kentucky Derby, when he is in fact the only trainer in recent memory who had a positive drug test in the Kentucky Derby.

[Diver52]

I'm only going to respond to your comment about the LA Times saying that racing needs Baffert. They do have a tame correspondent (John Cherwa)c but the times is about as PETA led as you can find. They practically danced in the streets when activists ("activists," meaning people you agree with vs. "extremists," people you don't agree with) managed to get the pony rides in Griffith Park shut down--picketing and shouting at children who came to ride. As I did Lo! these many years.

[Tessablue]

I'm only going to respond to your comment about the LA Times saying that racing needs Baffert. They do have a tame correspondent (John Cherwa)c but the times is about as PETA led as you can find. They practically danced in the streets when activists ("activists," meaning people you agree with vs. "extremists," people you don't agree with) managed to get the pony rides in Griffith Park shut down--picketing and shouting at children who came to ride. As I did Lo! these many years.

I'm referring to this column, which came out at the height of the seven dead horses saga and which I don't think PETA would particularly agree with: https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2 ... story.html

Racing needs Baffert because the public knows him. He sells tickets, gets the sport on the evening news and on the front page. He’s got white hair, is quick with a good quote and has great success. Our shallow media mostly chases celebrity, and Baffert is one.

...

Racing needs Baffert.

It needs the white hair, one-liners, loyal owners and sizable fan base. It needs him in the Kentucky Derby every couple of years. It needs him standing next to one of his owners, Joe Torre, when the national TV cameras come on.

The public has neither the time nor inclination to look much deeper than that, and racing badly needs that public.

In a recent interview, Baffert said words that should send shudders through the sport.

“These days,” he said, “I’m afraid to just be myself.”

This could be Exhibit A in the "how did we get here" files.

[Mylute]

I guess I just don't understand why there's so much "why Baffert?" regarding his banning from the Kentucky Derby, when he is in fact the only trainer in recent memory who had a positive drug test in the Kentucky Derby.

Tessa it's because he's the good ol' California boy that racing totally needs. He's never done anything wrong ever. California bends the rules for him all the time so every other jurisdiction should be forced to as well. He's special.

[brunanas]

i mean, to me this isn't a matter of whether it's fair or not. if the CDI wanted to be fair they'd be banning almost every trainer in existence and the Derby would basically be half a dozen USA trainers and then trainers from countries that rely on training and not on secret formulas. Baffert is not even the worst one but the problem (like Tessa pointed out) is that everyone and their mom knows who Bob is and it can't be good for a sport to have the poster boy also be the poster boy for doping allegations. and the thing about the ban is, the CDI has said over and over that if they just accept that they fucked up intentionally or not they'd have been allowed back in for the 2022 Derby. but they just have to keep complaining and acting like their horses are the sure winners and no one else has horses as good as theirs. again whether it's fair or not is up to each person to decide but you can't deny that the CDI has made it clear that they're always extending the suspension due to Bob and his clients not giving in but they keep pressing. i get this time you can't say Baffert was the one trying to sue his way back into the race but it was still someone connected to him trying to get him in the Derby. if they don't want their horses to suffer performance losses then maybe send them to someone with the same allegations but who is just lucky enough to not get popped in the biggest stage?

[Tessablue]

It's also not as though he's the first and only trainer to be banned from a racetrack. I don't think anyone will be missing Juan Vazquez at the Belmont this year, for instance.